Coop Posted September 6, 2020 Author Share Posted September 6, 2020 (edited) Per Paul Sellers and others, a double mortise and tenon is end to end and a twin m&t is side by side so perhaps I have been using the wrong terminology? Anyway, I cut all parts to length and width and down to final thickness and laid them out on a piece of sacrificial mdf. It’s hard to tell from the pic but the bottom rail is 8” wide and according to some, that’s correct. The top and stiles are 5” and inside rails are 3”. Laid out, it looks too much like an exterior door with the bottom rail that wide. On a forum someone mentioned that a bottom rail doesn’t know it’s a bottom rail. If I continue with the 8” bottom, I will use two each, double (as defined above) m&t’s. For aesthetics, I’m thinking of cutting the bottom rail down to 5” and use one m&t. As usual, I’m probably over thinking the whole darn thing. Anyone see a reason not to go with a 5” bottom rail? Edited September 6, 2020 by Coop 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 I think with having glass panels the 8” bottom is perfect. Any shorter and the odds if putting a foot through the glass goes up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted September 6, 2020 Author Share Posted September 6, 2020 Jamie, I think that is the consensus for an exterior door. As this will go from our bedroom to the bathroom. My wife wears flip flops and me barefoot so no a concern. I see where you are going with this and appreciate ya. I’m more thinking of the proportions with regards to stability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 I like the wider bottom as well. I think it gives the heavier look at the bottom and a lighter look on top. As for the M&T, if I were using the domino, I'd probably do 3 on each side of that rail. If I were doing traditional M&T, I would either do 2 or 1 jumbo.. I just don't know that there's a wrong answer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted September 6, 2020 Author Share Posted September 6, 2020 Thanks guys. Then 8” it is. I’m thinking double m&t then with 1/2” walls on the outside and middle with double 3 1/4” tenons. That’s the way it’s laid out now and will start punching holes in the morning. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted September 6, 2020 Author Share Posted September 6, 2020 19 minutes ago, Kev said: I like the wider bottom as well. I think it gives the heavier look at the bottom and a lighter look on top. As for the M&T, if I were using the domino, I'd probably do 3 on each side of that rail. If I were doing traditional M&T, I would either do 2 or 1 jumbo.. I just don't know that there's a wrong answer. From what I’ve read, 8” is the magic number for double m&t’s but have never seen what to leave outside and inside the tenons so I picked 1/2” . So 1/2” in from the end, 3 1/4” wide tenon, 1/2” original stock, 3 1/4” tenon and 1/2” original stock, Hopefully that makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted September 6, 2020 Author Share Posted September 6, 2020 Comments are encouraged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 25 minutes ago, Coop said: From what I’ve read, 8” is the magic number for double m&t’s but have never seen what to leave outside and inside the tenons so I picked 1/2” . So 1/2” in from the end, 3 1/4” wide tenon, 1/2” original stock, 3 1/4” tenon and 1/2” original stock, Hopefully that makes sense. Yep.. And it should be just fine.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chet Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 The only thing I will add is from what I see that is some really nice straight tight grain. Perfect for a door and it looks like it has some nice and differing color to it, that should look really nice when all finished. 3 Quote "Do not spoil what you have by desiring what you have not; remember that what you now have was once among the things you only hoped for." - Epicurus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bushwacked Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 I am good with the thicker bottom ... for the most part your eyes wont see it, I think? I would assume your eyes would see the smaller inner pieces and then the 5" top and trick your mind into thinking the bottom is the same? Either way, thats some great looking wood there though! Will look amazing!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodenskye (Bryan) Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 Looks good Coop! Hopefully the Mrs will properly thank you! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted September 7, 2020 Author Share Posted September 7, 2020 I became way more familiar with a plunge router today than I ever imagined. 28 mortises, 1 1/2” deep. Kev, the plunging the ends first is a good idea. Due to the depth, I went 3/4” , did the length and repeated. Even though I used stop blocks with double back tape, I think the initial plunges helped clear the chips. Although I won’t know until tomorrow after cutting some tenons if everything lines up, the double edge guide was well worth the money. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 They look great Coop! Everything in your favor! Stop blocks, dual edge guides, and additional support.. Very nice job! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted September 7, 2020 Author Share Posted September 7, 2020 3 hours ago, Bushwacked said: Either way, thats some great looking wood there though! Will look amazing!! Although I’m sure I’ve told the story more than once, I cut the walnut tree down about six years ago in Louisiana and brought it back to Houston and had it milled and it has been air drying ever since. It’s humble beginnings. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 Mortises look good coop! Having the back story on lumber just adds to the project. Excited to see how perfect they line up! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tmize Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 Good work there coop. That is going to be a very nice door. What kind material are you using for the loose tenon walnut? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted September 8, 2020 Author Share Posted September 8, 2020 I don’t know if it’s Kosher but whatever hardwood I had laying around for the tenons. A combination of cherry, walnut and hard maple. Hopefully, I didn’t have to use the same species, walnut. As it has only been dry fitted, if that’s the case, please let me know. Speaking of dry fit, to my amazement, after dry fitting, only a little sanding with 150 thru 220 will be needed. I did mess up on one of the mortises and cut it not quiet long enough and had to haunch tenon one half of one. Just tickled the hell out of me! I’ve been toying with the idea of how to sandwich the glass and have decided to use the same beaded board that I used on my recent build of an end table on the outside edges of the drawers. If anyone has a better idea, PLEASE let me know. As my final glue up using epoxy will be outdoors due to the size of this mother, maybe this coming weekend. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodenskye (Bryan) Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 Before final glue up you could cut a rabbet for the glass to fit in then you could use a small molding to secure. How close to center would determine depth of rabbet. Otherwise looking really good Coop. Don't think the species of tenon would matter, good place to use small scraps up. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 My only suggestions on the tenons, and I don't know that it really matters, is to try in stay in the same species or pick stable straight grain hardwood. I agree with Bryan on fitting the glass.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chet Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 4 hours ago, Woodenskye (Bryan) said: Don't think the species of tenon would matter, good place to use small scraps up. I agree but like Kev said search out for the straight grain. I think the ones from Festool are beech. 1 Quote "Do not spoil what you have by desiring what you have not; remember that what you now have was once among the things you only hoped for." - Epicurus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodenskye (Bryan) Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 3 hours ago, Chet said: I agree but like Kev said search out for the straight grain. I think the ones from Festool are beech. Chet you are correct the Festool are beech for interior and Sipo for exterior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tmize Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 7 hours ago, Woodenskye (Bryan) said: Before final glue up you could cut a rabbet for the glass to fit in then you could use a small molding to secure. How close to center would determine depth of rabbet. When I did my back porch screen door I glued it all up then ran a bearing guided rabbeting bit around the back side of the opening. Then I just squared up with a chisel. To me that was easier than doing a bunch of stopped rabbet. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 I agree with @Tmize do the rabbit after the glue up. The stop rabbit would be a pain and being as far as you are on the door would hate to see a little slip make a big mess. Door looks awesome! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted September 9, 2020 Author Share Posted September 9, 2020 9 hours ago, Kev said: My only suggestions on the tenons, and I don't know that it really matters, is to try in stay in the same species or pick stable straight grain hardwood. I agree with Bryan on fitting the glass.. The walnut tenons are from the same wood as the door and the maple is pretty straight. The cherry could probably be called curly and might be a good idea to remake them and in doing so, I can replace the maple ones as well. Is using the same species recommended as different woods have different movement habits? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 8 minutes ago, Coop said: The walnut tenons are from the same wood as the door and the maple is pretty straight. The cherry could probably be called curly and might be a good idea to remake them and in doing so, I can replace the maple ones as well. Is using the same species recommended as different woods have different movement habits? Different movement properties, yes. Noticeable on such small pieces, I highly doubt it. I wouldn't worry about is on this project, just a tid bit for the back of the brain on future projects. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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