Kev Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 Got approached today by a neighbor for a kitchen seating (table included) that also doubles as the kitchen island. This is the picture she sent me from Pinterest as and Idea of what she wanted.. For the record, I forewarned her That this would be very expensive. Of course she was interested in how expensive. Knowing the situation she's in, I knew she couldn't afford to hire me to build something like this for her. I suggested that I come look at her space and offer some suggestions as well as get some measurements. I'm glad I did! The kitchen she wants this for has been under remodel for a few year and has no cabinets, no appliances, and currently a very uneven and not even started floor. So, I suggested perhaps just starting with the table for now until she gets the kitchen finished and then decide if she wants the rest of that piece. Size would be 5 to 6 feet long and 3 to 4 feet wide. She's not sure of these dimensions yet either. So, now I'm at the point of doing some drawings and estimations for her. It's a painted base so, most likely poplar there. Farmhouse style which in my opinion is all over the map, and an African Mahogany top because nothing screams "farm house" like African Mahogany with breadboard ends! 😂 In her defense, she wanted a darker wood but, assumed I would stain to a color she wants. She'll be coming to our home next week to look at a bunch of different species and different finishes before making any final decisions on that. Ok.. My question to the group now that you have some background info.. As mentioned earlier, these table bases are all over the map as far as design goes. In the interest of saving her some money, I think staying away from the turned legs makes the Mose sense. I've looked at several base designs but, trying to come up with one simple design that will work well here. Do I do just the simple x brace with the feet and a trestle? Do I get a little more ornate? Looking for some input from you guys before starting my drawings.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodenskye (Bryan) Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 I just don’t think you have enough info to even begin the design process. The fact that there is no cabinets and is an unfinished space whatever you design may clash once she actually finishes the space, because she seems to have champagne taste and a beer budget. As a side note, and only my opinion, the kitchen pictured is from a house where they don’t cook or use the kitchen as a living space. Using as a functional island is useless, unless you just need to put the takeout bags or the catering trays, because you will spill on the seating. It also looks cramped for seating adults. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev Posted November 12, 2023 Author Share Posted November 12, 2023 9 minutes ago, Woodenskye (Bryan) said: I just don’t think you have enough info to even begin the design process. The fact that there is no cabinets and is an unfinished space whatever you design may clash once she actually finishes the space, because she seems to have champagne taste and a beer budget. As a side note, and only my opinion, the kitchen pictured is from a house where they don’t cook or use the kitchen as a living space. Using as a functional island is useless, unless you just need to put the takeout bags or the catering trays, because you will spill on the seating. It also looks cramped for seating adults. There's a lot of truths in this so, I'm glad I painted a good picture...🤣 Regardless, she is a neighbor going through some rough times so, I'll try and make her a table and only charge her enough to maintain her dignity. I'll make a top look good and construct a base she can paint and then feel good about the project. Just looking for some design ideas to accomplish it.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodenskye (Bryan) Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 I would keep the base simple, if she is more ornate with other design aspects of the space, a simple base will still look good and probably fit the space. I would probably lean towards a trestle style. You could probably find some 4” pre turned feet, as a secondary option to add to a simplified base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev Posted November 12, 2023 Author Share Posted November 12, 2023 2 hours ago, Woodenskye (Bryan) said: I would keep the base simple, if she is more ornate with other design aspects of the space, a simple base will still look good and probably fit the space. I would probably lean towards a trestle style. You could probably find some 4” pre turned feet, as a secondary option to add to a simplified base. Technically, I could also turn some legs as well but, was leaning more towards a simplified square base probably with the X in the middle since "Farmhouse" is the style she referenced most. However, a wider center version with a simple trestle/through tenon may very well be "Farmhouse" enough as well. Might have to do a couple different drawings to see what she likes better.. Starting with the version I prefer to build first 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chet Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 I am just tossing this out as a very simple trestle design. I am just speaking to the base as the top in this is designed for extension wings which I don't believe she needs. We wanted a simple design but I wanted a design that would allow me to at times stretch out my legs with out hitting a cross member at floor level that you see on a lot of trestle tables. I had just finished attaching the top, hence the sawdust on the trestle and floor. 1 Quote "Do not spoil what you have by desiring what you have not; remember that what you now have was once among the things you only hoped for." - Epicurus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev Posted November 12, 2023 Author Share Posted November 12, 2023 1 hour ago, Chet said: I am just tossing this out as a very simple trestle design. I am just speaking to the base as the top in this is designed for extension wings which I don't believe she needs. We wanted a simple design but I wanted a design that would allow me to at times stretch out my legs with out hitting a cross member at floor level that you see on a lot of trestle tables. I had just finished attaching the top, hence the sawdust on the trestle and floor. I like this a lot! I may borrow some details here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev Posted November 13, 2023 Author Share Posted November 13, 2023 Well, I really thought this was going to be a long design process with a bunch of changes! I was hoping to get to @Chet's design because I really liked it, it was budget friendly for her, and not too complicated to build. I decided to start with a super basic trellis base with an African Mahogany top in hopes of easy detail changes. I sent her the drawing and within minutes, she responded requesting a slightly different view. My first thought was.. "Here we go"!!! I had omitted the tusks from the tenons on the initial drawing so, let her know that I could add those in if she wanted to see them. I omitted them because I truly thought this design was way off to start with and didn't want to waste the time. She wasn't sure what the "tusks" on the through tenons were so asked me to draw them in for her. Of course I complied and sent this rendering. Her response.. I'm still at a bit of a loss because there's no way in hell I thought this is what this table was going to look like.🤣 Of course now I just want to build the table @Chet posted because I think it was a way better option! 🤣 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev Posted November 13, 2023 Author Share Posted November 13, 2023 Well, I submitted her the quote this morning and she very quickly accepted.. Expecting her deposit in the next day or 2 which is when I'll go pick up lumber. I don't expect to actually start this build until December but, I do want to try and get it in before I have to take off for work again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted November 14, 2023 Share Posted November 14, 2023 I like Chet’s build a bunch but I also like you getting the stretcher higher off the floor which will give the users more leg room, especially if they go with the island config, where there is only entrance to the seating from one end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev Posted November 14, 2023 Author Share Posted November 14, 2023 4 minutes ago, Coop said: I like Chet’s build a bunch but I also like you getting the stretcher higher off the floor which will give the users more leg room, especially if they go with the island config, where there is only entrance to the seating from one end. He's got it centered up nicely so, I really don't see this being an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chet Posted November 14, 2023 Share Posted November 14, 2023 14 hours ago, Kev said: He's got it centered up nicely so, I really don't see this being an issue. I haven't had an issue with it at all. I sit at the end for dinner but in the morning for breakfast and coffee I sit on the side so I can spread my news paper out better and it works fine... no bruised shins here. 1 Quote "Do not spoil what you have by desiring what you have not; remember that what you now have was once among the things you only hoped for." - Epicurus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev Posted November 17, 2023 Author Share Posted November 17, 2023 Well, this one is official! Client dropped off the deposit today and finalized design and finish details.. Will get started around the first of December. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev Posted November 29, 2023 Author Share Posted November 29, 2023 Still sorting through my Sketchup issues but, I did sign up for their cheapest version so that I could add dimensions to this table and make a workable shop plan. Ready to get going on this one! If anyone is truly interested in how I bid this project and how I keep track of things as I go, I'll be happy to share that here with you???? I'm more than happy to share real time numbers with you throughout the project. I picked up all the lumber yesterday and am getting ready to head to the shop to do the rough milling for the top. So far, the client has a refund coming on the material since I was able to get it cheaper than the original estimate. I'll hold on to this information until I determine that I have enough material and that it meets standards. Always nice to have a little cushion! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev Posted November 29, 2023 Author Share Posted November 29, 2023 Good day today overall! Got all (all but one piece) the lumber rough milled. Also had a good visit from the client to approve the orientation that I picked out for the boards in the top. African Mahogany is tough since it looks different from all angles! I thought it was important to have her approve the final look of the top especially since it's purely an aesthetic decision. I did cut the center stretcher too short and had to reorder one piece of Poplar for that. My mistake at no charge to the client. Will pick that up tomorrow or Friday. Here it is, all stickered and stacked up! Hoping for little to no movement since it took a bit to get the African Mahogany flat! Will probably go back to the top tomorrow and see about getting it glued up! Hard to believe there's a dining table sitting in that pile! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 anyone is truly interested in how I bid this project and how I keep track of things as I go, I'll be happy to share that here withyou???? I'm more than happy to share real time numbers with you throughout the project. I think that would be great. Thanks for offering. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev Posted November 30, 2023 Author Share Posted November 30, 2023 13 minutes ago, Coop said: anyone is truly interested in how I bid this project and how I keep track of things as I go, I'll be happy to share that here withyou???? I'm more than happy to share real time numbers with you throughout the project. I think that would be great. Thanks for offering. Ok.. Regardless of coming in under or over my bid, I'll try and take this step by step and explain myself along the way. Any question is fair and I'm happy to answer them.. For starters, the client is in a bit of a rough spot in life and also a distant neighbor. So, I lowered my hourly rate to try and help her out as well as generate some future business as she wants a lot more than just this table for her kitchen/dining area.. This is what my normal bid on this table would have been.. Because of what's mentioned above, I lowered my shop rate and here is the quote submitted to the client. I lowered my labor cost to $30.00 per hour. Since this is the actual quote given to the client, these are the numbers I'm trying to hit. If I missed anything, that's on me. If I totally underestimated something, that's on me. Barring change orders, this is the max that the client will be charged. I may have missed a bit on the finish but, we'll talk about that in a week or so when I get there. The client wanted a little different finish that I probably could have charged more for but, didn't. I'll go into detail when we get there. Lumber: To catch things up to where the project actually is.. I was able to cut a "cash" price with my local HW dealer so, lumber came in a little less than expected. Bid: $495..81 Actual: $416.25 Difference: $79.56 Assuming I don't need any additional lumber, this amount will come off of the final bill to the client.. Note: I do need an additional board of poplar for the center stretcher on the base because of my error. I just have to eat this, it was my error. This kind of stuff is captured on my quote sheet for the client to see in the end. Labor: Labor will be an ongoing increasing number as the project progresses but, I will try and update to real time numbers at the end of each day.. We're only in one day and only 4.5 hours of that was actually billable. This includes a reasonable time to pick up material at the HW dealer. I keep track on the white board in my shop and don't claim time that's not actually spent working on the project. This is transferred to my quote sheet so that everything is in one location and completely viewable to the client. I also keep track of deposits or changes here as well.. Here's what the list looks like so far. Total: 4.5hrs I didn't charge for consulting time today figuring out the board configuration for the top. She really didn't make any changes to what I had come up with so, was just conversing with the client time in the shop discussing the project. Bogs down the progress but, keeps the client happy. So, what's all that boil down to? There's $1192.50 left on the budget and a $79.56 refund due on lumber since I got a break. In other words, I need to find a way to complete this project for $1112.94 or about 37 hours of work including finish to stay on my quote. So far, I'm feeling like my quote is pretty accurate to what the final will be.. We'll see Note: This doesn't account for the finishing stuff mentioned above which will probably bite me a little but, shouldn't be too bad. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev Posted November 30, 2023 Author Share Posted November 30, 2023 Another really good day in the shop! I final milled all of the leg pieces, got the mortises for the center stretcher done, and got the M&T joints done to be able to put the legs together. I also created a template to mark out for the curves in the side pieces and got them marked. Still a lot of work to do before gluing these up but I'm happy with the production for the day! So, where's the cost at? Currently sitting at 9.75 hours A little over 31 hours left to finish this project. Maybe the finish won't bite me as bad as I thought! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkinneb Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 (edited) Kev curious is $90 for finish just product? Oh and thanks for sharing this data!! Edited December 1, 2023 by pkinneb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 It’s going to be interesting to see your thought process for painting the pieces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev Posted December 1, 2023 Author Share Posted December 1, 2023 10 minutes ago, pkinneb said: Kev curious is $90 for finish just product? Oh and thanks for sharing this data!! Yes, originally I thought the finish was going to be Rubio so that's what I quoted. However, the client wants the feel of Rubio but, the look of Potassium Dichromate. So, I'll be doing both finishes on the table top. I already had the Potassium Dichromate on hand as a tiny bit makes a lifetime's need of it so, didn't charge any extra for material. The cost will come with the labor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev Posted December 1, 2023 Author Share Posted December 1, 2023 15 minutes ago, Coop said: It’s going to be interesting to see your thought process for painting the pieces. I'm not doing the painting, the client is. However, I did supply several raw blocks of poplar today so that the client can create her own samples to decide what she likes. With that said, I did show her some painted pieces I've done that she was very happy with the look of. So, she's going down the General Finishes Milk Paint road and then I'll shoot the base afterwards with General Finishes High Performance. I'm looking forward to seeing her color choices for the base! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 I don’t remember if you mentioned it earlier. Will the table break down? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev Posted December 1, 2023 Author Share Posted December 1, 2023 17 minutes ago, Coop said: I don’t remember if you mentioned it earlier. Will the table break down? It won't.. Although it looks like it will, because of the top rails for additional support this table will not break down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 EVER!!!! 😀 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.