Saw Stop - Just a Conversation

[Chet]

Submitted on the old forum by Kev

I've created this thread about 4 times today and removed it each time because I don't want to step on toes or have it derail in a bad direction, that's just not my intent.

But....  Once again today, my feed is full of SS owner making "mental" mistakes and having trips.  Each time, their fingers were never in harms way.  The trips were caused from either forgetting to put it in bypass mode or not realizing their miter fence was going to hit.  All having to do with metal objects.

My question is this..  Do you really want to pay a couple hundred bucks for these mistakes or would you rather just pay for the blade if it was damaged?

For the record, I am not anti saw stop!  They make a really nice saw!  Had their technology differentiated between metal and flesh, I would have been right on the bandwagon.  However the term "flesh sensing technology" is a bit of a misnomer! 

Follow up posts

1) I see pros and cons of SS, but I don't know if I would purchase 1. My biggest reason is I have heavy respect (overly cautious) of something spinning a sharp object really fast. I would probably forget to set in bypass mode and having an activation would really make me angry.

2) Its interesting that you mentioned this today. On my latest project I was cutting some miters just this morning using the Incra 5000 sled. Because of the high angle I was cutting I had to add a 45 degree jig to the sled to get the set up I needed. Everything I did during the operation was safe but my one hand was about 3.5 inches from the blade and I was mindful of this the whole time. Never once did I think that there was no concern because I have a SawStop, my mindfulness came from the fact that I don't want to hit a spinning blade with my hand. I don't work any different in my shop now then I did 7 years ago before I purchased this saw. To me you can't change your thinking, it is the only tool in the shop with the technology. My bandsaw, miter saw, router, jointer and planer don't have it and you can't move around the shop turning on and off your safe thinking, it need to be on the whole time. The technology in my mind is an "in addition to" not an "instead of" feature.  I respect the spinning blade, never does it enter my mind that there is a safety feature there when I am using the saw.  I wouldn't want to get lazy in my operation and find out in a really bad way that I had the one brake that SawStop made that is flawed.  

When I first got my saw I had a brake fire because I was using my miter gauge and I had the saw blade over at an angle and when you do that the fence on the miter gauge need to be adjusted to the right or it will hit the blade.  My mistake and I paid for it, but it would have hit the blade on any saw not just the SawStop.  Lesson learned.  

Yea, its expensive, the price of your blade of choice and the brake cartridge is about 70 bucks, more if it is the brake for your dado stack.  But if I have a true accident that is so much  cheaper then going to the doctor even if it was for just a single stitch.

If you talk to SawStop the override isn't really there to avoid situations like using your miter gauge or any other jig that may have metal doing stuff like this still should involve proper set up.  The override is there so you can cut things like pressure treated wood or any other damp wood and also you would need to override if you put a blade on for cutting ferrous metals.

Flesh sensing, yea thats a bad choice of words.  The whole system is set up on completing an electrical circuit and unfortunately there are a number of items that can do that. metal, fingers, moisture and the all to famous hot dog.

The cartridge only needs to be messed with when you are putting you dado stack on, otherwise its just like changing a blade on any saw.  I did have one incident with a cartridge when Kev was in my shop and I kept getting an error signal and this stops you from turning on the saw so we ended up using the override so Kev could get his work done.  Following Monday I call Tech and their first guess was correct a little crud in the saw was keeping the cartridge from setting properly and there for the circuit wasn't setting properly.  Just a little compressed air fixed it.

Sorry about the long post I just wanted to share my thinking.  

3) Knowing you're an owner Chet, you were the first toes I didn't want to step on and I know you're good around the table saw.

In the case of the miter gauges, most are aluminum and won't damage a blade. But, with the technology, it's too late once its touched and you're out blade plus cartridge. Assuming my set up (blade choice) this would be about 200 bucks. Plus, if I'm not carrying extra blades and cartridges, now I'm down on production until I can get them replaced. Financially, it's not the end of the earth for me but, time wise it could very well be. 

I'm currently working a commissioned piece and had to cut some splines for splined miters last night. I got it all set up and decided to make a dry run first and sure enough, my blade would have hit the miter gauge. Easy correction before the cut but, had I of missed it and had a SS, I'd of been down on a client project until Tuesday at a minimum. I have no local vendors.

Like Chet, I try really hard to practice safe practices at the table saw. From time to time, we all make mistakes and hopefully it's only equipment damage. But, to lose the use of the saw is not acceptable for what I do. Nor is paying a single company extra money to have their spare parts on hand if I do make that mistake.  

It's a catch 22.. You might be damned if you do and might be damned if you don't. But, the probability of a trip for a non injury related trip is astronomically higher than an injury related trip.

Bottom line.. Be safe on the table saw regardless of your choice of saws. If you buy a SS because you question your safety standards around the table saw, I'd suggest evaluating those standards first. If you just want the extra layer of protection and are willing to accept the down time or money involved, more power to you. Who am I to judge? It's your shop, money, and your flow.

4) ==> If you buy a SS because you question your safety standards around the table saw, I'd suggest evaluating those standards first.

Good point. This is absolutely true, you shouldn't be letting yourself off the hook in safe work habits by buying a SawStop.

I will share my thinking on my purchase.  I looked at them all when I was shopping and kind of what it came down to is I really liked the Sawstop it looked and felt like a top notch saw.  The thing that finally tip the scale was I started thinking about the fact that I had worked in the meat industry for 32+ years and had worked around band saws with 10 HP motors, massive meat grinders and meat slicers and of course my knives.  Add to that working in the wood shop for almost the same amount of time I figured that the odds were starting to stack up against me and it wouldn't hurt to had a layer of protection where I could.

I have never had so much as a stitch in the meat shop or the wood shop and would like to keep it that way.

Discussions like this are good.

5) I would say #1 for me was build quality. Everything I read was it was equal to PM plus being the industrial version it may even take the lead... also the black is cool. 

Won't lie, the safety part did play a little bit into it. I'm not a pro and only hobbyist so I'm not perfect. I've watched tons of safety videos and watched norm and how handles a saw. Plus chatting with my brother in law and father in law who are builders/finish Carpenters. So to me .. that 1 bad day I'll still be able to count to 10. I bought an extra break as well. I always consider my cuts and hand positions before I start to so it's not like I'm careless. I always treat it like it will take my fingers/hand off if I screw up. 

6) The SS is indeed a very nice saw!  Very solid with little to no vibration, solid fence, and plenty of horsepower.  I've had the pleasure of using them in a couple different shops.

[That Kiwi Bloke]

On the other hand I just discovered the saw stop the other day. Didn't know it was a complete saw, to be honest thought it was something that could be added to an existing saw. HOWEVER...your a complete idiot if you don't go into a work shop and don't treat any of the machines with anything but respect. And it only takes an instant single mistake for things to get completely FARKED. I can still see it now a year later like i just did it. If I'd had a saw stop my thumb might still be fully intact and not still giving me tingly burning sensations. Thumbs are full of nerves they say. The only thing stopping me buying one now after the fact for piece of mind is $$$.

 

The moral of my story is don't use the panel saw in a stinking hot shed with sweaty hands. Hands that could slip off a shiny plastic push stick.

Now if I had one of these saws and did screw things up again and lost out on a safety cartridge and blade. Small price to pay for a finger(s).

Every time I go anywhere near that saw now I think about my thumb.

 

But thats just me.

[Chet]

17 hours ago, That Kiwi Bloke said:

lost out on a safety cartridge and blade. Small price to pay for a finger(s).

Very small indeed.