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Pricing your work


Kev

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There was a great question on YT in response to the design video that I published this morning around how to figure out a shop rate.  For some reason, this subject seems to be off limits for open discussions and I'm not sure why.  As you guys know, I also published the Excel file for doing take offs on a project to generate a quote for a client.  For the record, that's my method of doing it but, there's lots of other ways to quote your work.  I wanted to start a thread to generate good conversation around this subject and I'll start.

Note:  This is assuming you're looking to make a profit on a project.  There's absolutely nothing wrong with doing a project purely for the love of the craft or just because you want to!

Lumber - I don't charge a markup on lumber but, I do add 20% to the total BF to account for defects.  If a client requests the scraps when the project is finished, I will happily send that material with the project when the project is finished.

Finishes - I don't charge a markup for finishes as there's usually finish left over that I'll use on other projects.  I don't send leftover finish with the client so this ends up being like a markup.  I do charge for finish on all projects even if I use finish from another client's project.

Hardware - I don't charge a markup for hardware but, I also don't spend months scouring the internet looking for the cheapest price either.  My conversations with clients on this subject are around their quality expectations.  There's a big difference between a butt hinge from the big box store and Brusso.

Shop Rate - What I charge for a shop rate I think will be different from most other people.  Because my day job is on the road, I'm really not looking for commissioned pieces so, my rate is a bit higher at fifty an hour.  If I get a commissioned piece then the client is willing to pay the price it takes to take me away of the other things in my life that require my time.  If I were actively looking for clients and needed this income to put food on the table, I suspect this rate would be significantly different.

Another consideration to figuring out your shop rate is what your local market will take.  If the area you live in doesn't have a large enough base to keep a steady flow of clients walking through your door then, you'll need to reevaluate your number.  This is a bit of a dual edge sword because people are inherently cheap and want to undervalue your work.  In the end, only you can determine what your time is worth.

Shop Supplies and Overhead - There are some items (like Dominoes) that I usually calculate in the Hardware section but, essentially this is the section that catches everything I didn't think of when I did the bid.  To make life easy for me, I add 10% to the overall to account for this section.

Looking forward to the discussion!  

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Great topic and I’m just glad I don’t do Woodworking for a living as I would be on a street corner with my ts. I just sprayed a top coat on my wife’s armoire that I have at least $800 of materials in and I wouldn’t pay $200 to buy it from someone’s store. But it’s painted and glazed and not my style but I do get to sleep in the same bed😀. Last painted anything I ever make. I know damn well that I could have cut the shop cost, due to painting by 30% and built it in cherry for the same cost but, nooooo, not what she wanted. 

Kev, in all fairness, using your excel sheet, what is your total cost on your chest of drawers and what would the sell cost be if it went to a client? Show the labor/shop cost if you will. 

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Some things you don’t mention is delivery and installation.  The few times I provided quotes for projects I added 25% to the BF calculation, not so much for padding waste, but to factor in my time and fuel to get material.  Also 1 problem with shop rate is you really need to know the actual time it takes to mill, cut joinery, finish and all that stuff.  You can’t guess.  Delivery/rental of truck on large pieces need to be factored, shipping on small items.  If you are making this a business time and money spent need to be top priorities.

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10 hours ago, Coop said:

 

Kev, in all fairness, using your excel sheet, what is your total cost on your chest of drawers and what would the sell cost be if it went to a client? Show the labor/shop cost if you will. 

I didn't put the chest of drawers in this file because it was for me but, I could..  I'll look into it when I get home.  Being such a large piece, it's a lot of parts..lol. Frankly, I'm afraid to look...lol

 

8 hours ago, Woodenskye (Bryan) said:

Some things you don’t mention is delivery and installation.  The few times I provided quotes for projects I added 25% to the BF calculation, not so much for padding waste, but to factor in my time and fuel to get material.  Also 1 problem with shop rate is you really need to know the actual time it takes to mill, cut joinery, finish and all that stuff.  You can’t guess.  Delivery/rental of truck on large pieces need to be factored, shipping on small items.  If you are making this a business time and money spent need to be top priorities.

Fair points.  Most of my clients are local for large projects and pay for the shipping on smaller projects.  I understand your reasoning on the extra for the lumber but, I consider the extra 10% on the entire bill sufficient to cover my trips to the lumber yard..  If I needed to add something like renting a truck into the quote, I would most likely plug it into hardware and accessories with a good note about what the charge was for.

On the milling/joinery, I do count that in when I list how long it takes me to make individual parts.  Milling a part flat and square doesn't take that long and if there are multiple parts, batching actually reduces the amount of time it takes to make each one.  The first one is slow but, the rest are pretty quick.  Additionally, if the joinery is domino then this time is significantly reduced as well.  Clients usually like it when you have a method like this to reduce the cost without reducing the quality.

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The bulk of the pieces I've built have been shadow boxes for my comrades retiring from the military.  I always charged for just the materials and added about 10% (usually totaled about $125'ish).  For me it was about building my woodworking experience, but the real payoff was always the recipients' reactions when the box was presented to them with their medals, patches, rank, etc... arranged in it.  Seeing some of the "grown men cry" was like a thousand dollar payday~!!

I just recently completed what I'm considering my first actual commission piece:  another shadow box, of sorts, to hold the client's "magic cards" (modern day Dungeons & Dragons type game, I'm guessing).  He gave me a rough drawing that I modeled in SketchUp to get his approval on the overall design.  I wasn't able to give him a price ahead of time, but he said to proceed on, so I did.  When he came to pick it up, he loved what he saw.  I wasn't able to gauge his reaction when I hit him with the bill...shocked at being too much or too little, but he send me the funds and I've received good feedback from after he got it home and populated it with his cards.  Personally, I think I really undercharged for it, but I'm learning this part of the hobby/business.  I'm attaching a few pics to include the one he sent me.

The box is 31" h x 24"w x 5"d and is made of Walnut with a masonite back panel, and Plexiglas panels on front with hemp pulls.  The finish was only natural Danish Oil.  I charged him $250.

All feedback is appreciated....be gentle~!   🙂

Card_Case_delivered.jpg

Card_Case_final.jpg

Card_Case_slat_assy.jpg

Card_Case_slat_assy2.jpg

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Great job on the box, it turned out great!  Hopefully that Excel file helps you out so that you feel like both you and your client got a fair deal.

For the record, if anyone needs me to shoot a more in-depth video around this Excel file, I'd be happy to do it.  Just a more in-depth dive into actually populating a project into it, adding your pictures to the report page, changing any formulas that need changing, etc..  It's really not hard but, not everyone is savvy with the tech stuff.

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