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Kitchen cabinets


Jamie
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Jamie, looks like you have your act together! Good job. Out of curiosity, what formula did you use to determine the width of your rails and stiles? Will you be using the ts to cut your raised panels or the router/shaper? 

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On 6/1/2021 at 9:32 PM, Coop said:

Jamie, looks like you have your act together! Good job. Out of curiosity, what formula did you use to determine the width of your rails and stiles? Will you be using the ts to cut your raised panels or the router/shaper? 

I cheated @Coop I just googled a cabinet door calculator, found 3 different ones. They are kinda nice to use, just put in cabinet opening size and it figures the rest. I did double check the math on them. It also figures in your depth of tongue cut and the gap that you would like for your panels. Only thing it wouldn’t figure is the doors with a mid rail. Did those the old fashioned way by using the calculator on my smartphone. 

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Need more horsepower! Got started raising the panels last night, tried taking the full depth of cut in one pass. The grizzly 3hp shaper didn’t like it one bit. Belts squealing and it actually stopped the cutter head. Had to back it off some and take 3 passes at the raised panel. I am also running a back cutter as well. 
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The bottom panel in the picture is the depth I took on the first pass. Another small issue that I ran into with this is the amount of big dust shavings. They wanted to stack up in my drum and would start to fill up the drop hose. Was more annoying than anything and made for a good stopping point last night. Had all the panels through 1 pass. B6EAE38A-76DD-462C-97E6-E9E44B724285.thumb.jpeg.125bfe121e0b3d988c19e1418a4bb433.jpeg

 

Got back at it tonight by taking the 2 full barrels of dust out to a farm where I get rid of the dust. Have taken him 3 full drums so far from this project and have the 4th one almost full again. Just raising the panels filled 1 1/2 drums. Granted there is quite a bit of air space in there. Just a weird shaving. 
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All the panels raised. 
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The mess left behind. When taking lighter passes with big cutters, on the second and 3rd pass the chips really flew. Just no way to direct them into the dust chute. 

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On to door assembly......start out by hand sanding the mill marks on the raised panels. Not a fun process to do and only way I’ve found is to do it by hand. I can’t seem to find my hand sanding pad, I believe an 8 year old was last seen using it. I just use a piece of sticky back paper folded in half to do this set. Get a little hot to hold at times. FBAE8C96-3513-45FB-9EDE-F337C32D868B.thumb.jpeg.064a66ac67023ad09d0b58c886e039dd.jpeg

 

I decided to pre stain the door edges. Have never done this step before but after talking to my buddy at the cabinet shop they have switched to this method after having some door panels shrink and it leaving a line of unstained material. With as dark of stain that is going on these cabinets I thought it might not hurt. Only staining the fronts. F4D5DD70-90EF-442E-AE81-3AF6F98EB783.thumb.jpeg.a67f4fb3d9723874ef1864c24000134e.jpeg

I did manage to find a space ball alternative, found some weather striping that is 1/4 wide by 1/8 thick. Just cut it down to 1”-1 1/2” pieces. It is a little tricky being that it’s sticky on both sides. Found using a small flat head screwdriver helps seat it. One advantage to it being sticky is that it doesn’t fall out once it’s in place. 17BCF239-BD65-4B76-BC85-FF68DD885F63.thumb.jpeg.2a59af35b84a7ead5a7ecaf29a5a0810.jpeg9584B028-682D-40A4-B8AD-E7BCE17DB51D.thumb.jpeg.9cbeebb909d5425596a99224fd5fa6ae.jpeg

 

First door went together fairly easily. I always leave the rails stick off the end of the stile to allow me to tap them flush. It is a lot easier to tap them flush than to try to tap them back out. Just not much to make contact with the hammer. EF82E70D-08D6-4244-9F31-63486575008A.thumb.jpeg.8f70ca9bbf6ff0191280d518b79c17b2.jpeg

 

Once they are flush I give them a light squeeze with the clamps and check for square. I did have to adjust every door just a hair to get them spot on. A52CAAD0-06F0-4904-BDAA-761D8296F3AF.thumb.jpeg.8572a3a751732c3e156e087aefb4b5a8.jpeg

 

And here is my progress for the night. Takes quite a bit of time to go through all the steps. Doing them in small batches to break up the hand sanding. I decided against putting a pin nail in the back rail and just letting them cure in the clamps. Figured that by time the next batch is ready the glue will be set long enough. 

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Looking good! I typically pre finish my panels with a couple coats of whatever I am applying to the finished doors usually poly or something similar. This helps eliminate the lines you referenced as well as seal them up on all sides.

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Got some shop time in over the weekend. All the doors are assembled with the same process as In the previous post. I did make a little glue brush holder to keep it from rolling around. I can’t take credit for the idea as I did see it somewhere, just can’t remember where. E3DDCE56-3F00-4213-9CC0-63BC83A7CA47.thumb.jpeg.e92bfd38a95c117217bf0e0af472cfc5.jpeg

It’s a pretty simple little cup holder, 2x4 scrap which I cut a hole in to hold the cup and a couple groves to keep the brush from rolling. Made spreading the glue on the tongues pretty nice. 

Ended up taking the better part of the day to get all of them assembled.  

 

It was pretty warm outside and I’m lucky enough to have a window ac in the shop  it helps but once machines are running it doesn’t keep up very well.  Does take the edge off though.

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Next step for the doors was through the drum sander. Figured with this many parts I’d get as much dust collection to the sander that I could. Moved the planer and bandsaw out of the way, and connected the two 4” lines to the sander. Figured it might be better than one 4” line being split to both ports.  Did spend a little time tuning the sander up as well. 
 

With the sander being new to me I didn’t get any pictures of the progress. I started out with 120 grit and 150 grit. Ran all the parts through 2x on both the front and backs. Then switched grits to 180 and 220.  One nice feature that I need to play around with more is the separate adjustment of the back drum. Think it could really be a factor if wanting to get a really nice finish pass. 
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And all the parts sanded. Did get the shaper set up to run the door edge. That will be the next step for me. 

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Been a busy few days around home between little league games and life in general. Got some shop time in tonight......had to do a little shop maintenance with cleaning out the dust collection filters along with the down draft table filters. That has to be the absolute worst thing I have to do in the shop. 
 

Once I had that mess cleaned up I moved on to putting the door edge profile on. It is insert cutter that I got from Byrd. Hit me hard in the pocket but is a really nice cutter. The idea behind the cutter is to remove 1/16” from the edge of the door to clean up the saw blade marks. 
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The shaper fence is set up just like a jointer fence, with the outfeed side set to the cutter and the infeed set at the removal depth. It can be a little tricky running this setup even with a power feeder.  Have to really pay attention to your pressure with your hands shifting the pressure from the infeed to the outfeed side of the fence all while feeding a blowout block in behind the end grain cuts. 
 

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Picture of the door edge before running.

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And after. Cutter cleans it up well and cut very smooth. Little hand sanding and is good to go. 
 

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Did run into a little trouble running the 6” drawer fronts. Just not enough fence to keep it stable. Had a little snipe on this one! Did end up milling up a new front to replace it. B7A613AC-9CC8-4445-B158-EC7186ED5D1D.thumb.jpeg.84e716892a7b5ebb2440d593b3fb498e.jpeg

Made a quick adjustment to the cutter height and grabbed the clamp sled. Made it much easier and safer. 
Could have also made a different fence for the shaper with a smaller opening that would’ve allowed me to run them through without adjustment. 
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All the doors edged and ready for finish sanding. 
Haven’t decided if I’m going to just leave them for a bit or get them stained and varnished before I start in on the plywood. Would like to do all the spraying at one time to avoid having to cover all the tools to spray in the shop more than once. 

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4 hours ago, Kev said:

If you're staining, this is a good time to get your blotch control on them!

Looking good!

Will be staining them, didnt plan on using a blotch control.  With this stain its all about how you sand and consistency with it.  End each door with a fresh piece of paper.

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Been moving along slower than I had hoped for on this project. Did manage to get the plywood picked up that I ordered In to a local lumber yard. It is an import birch ply 3/4 thick and 1/2. I haven’t checked them with a caliper yet to see the actual thickness. To be honest not really impressed with it. It is an imported product and the veneer seems super thin on it. 
 

Mostly the reason for the slow progress is life, ball games take up a few nights a week and one day on the weekends. The are fun to get to tho! My wife is coaching the team this year and my oldest plays. Here is a quick shot of mom pitching to daughter.  With being from a small town we also take care of a lot of the field maintenance. 
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We also took a little trip to see the blue angels preform. Have seen them a few times in my life and they never disappoint. The F-35a did steal the show though. Impressive piece of equipment. 
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Brought the plywood home and had a neighbor call me up to unload it! He seen me pull in and ran over to help!

In total it’s 16 sheets of 3/4 and 9 of 1/2. All for $1800 😟

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Staged some of it against the wall and the others on the adjustable bench. 
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I always start breaking down the sheets in half, after figuring how many I will need. With the adjustable bench it makes moving the sheets to the saw a one man job. 
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After they are ripped to 23 15/16 I mark each cut side with a c, they all get stacked with the cut edges facing the same way. 
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With the sheets all ripped it’s on to cross cutting. I knew I would need a hand for this or find a way to support the left side of the blade. Decided to move the bench and line it up with the saw top. Was a little hesitant on how well it would work. To my surprise it worked incredibly well! Did manage to get the base cabinet sides cut to length before having to head to the house. Hopefully can get some time in the shop this weekend. 

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On 6/17/2021 at 7:40 PM, Jamie said:

Decided to move the bench and line it up with the saw top. Was a little hesitant on how well it would work. To my surprise it worked incredibly well!

Good example of "where there is a will, there is a way". 

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“If you don’t have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?”  John Wooden

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Plywood parts all cut to size, my neighbor bought the kreg rip cut track and had me try it out for him.  Only made a handful of cuts with it, it worked......ok. Not over impressed but not thinking it was a complete waste of money.  Should say all the 3/4 ply is cut to size. Haven’t started on the 1/2 which is the cabinet backs and drawer bottoms. 
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Set the power feeder up to assist with the dados and rabbit cuts.  

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Dust collection pipe was in the way for the taller cabinets, happy it’s on wheels to slide it back and gain the clearance.  I didn’t get any pictures of the cabinet sides with the completed cuts in them but will show once the shelf holes are all in. 
 

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Put the dado in the backs of the face frames as long as I had the stack set up.  
 

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Ran into a little trouble with the power feeder wanting to shift. Did a quick wedge between the fence tube and the base which kept it from sliding.  Am considering drilling a couple holes through the extension wing to bolt the base down.  Not sure if I want to mess up my cast iron top tho.  What would you guys do?

 

With all the cutting on this project the tablesaw filled with dust.  That has to be my biggest complaint about the saw.  The dust collection is in the bottom of the cabinet and is not very effective.  
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13 hours ago, Jamie said:

The dust collection is in the bottom of the cabinet and is not very effective.

The newer saws seem to be adding a shroud around the blade to better direct the dust.  At least that is what the SawStop has and I thing the newer modes of Powermatic has it also.

I am with you, I wouldn't be in a real hurry to drill into my saw top. 

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“If you don’t have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?”  John Wooden

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18 minutes ago, Chet said:

The newer saws seem to be adding a shroud around the blade to better direct the dust.  At least that is what the SawStop has and I thing the newer modes of Powermatic has it also.

I am with you, I wouldn't be in a real hurry to drill into my saw top. 

My PM has the shroud as well.

Zero clearance inserts don't help with DC either.  They restrict the air flow inside the machine.  I usually make sure there's at least one big finger hole in my inserts.  In reality, they should probably have 2.

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Jamie, I feel better about my less than adequate dc on my Jet ts now. But in reality, the cabinet of my ts is a dc as the dust never seems to make it’s way to the dc system. 

Kev, regarding your comment on the zci, I probably don’t understand all I know about air flow but my problem and appears as Jamie’s as well, the dust is getting into the cabinet but not into my dc hose via the port. I bet 80% never makes it into my dc system from the ts. The jointer, bs and drum sander all work great. Don’t mean to hj your thread but maybe someone has an answer to our problem. 

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The problem is that the DC doesn’t have enough suction to pull all the dust from the “large” area inside the cabinet.  As Chet mentioned that is why a lot of newer saws have a shroud around the blade going to the dust port.  Another problem is that most cabinet saws aren’t air tight, so that also contributes to the problem.  If there was a way to create a shroud you could see improvement.  With a ZCI and shroud collection should be good.

My saw is a contractor saw with a 2 1/2” port, using a shop vac does a decent job, purely because they put a shroud around blade and port.  However I still get dust build up, because of the openings in the saw.  I could tape off the bigger openings if I never wanted to tilt the blade again.

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16 minutes ago, Coop said:

Kev, regarding your comment on the zci, I probably don’t understand all I know about air flow but my problem and appears as Jamie’s as well, the dust is getting into the cabinet but not into my dc hose via the port. I bet 80% never makes it into my dc system from the ts. The jointer, bs and drum sander all work great. Don’t mean to hj your thread but maybe someone has an answer to our problem. 

The issue with the zci is that they don't allow any airflow around the blade.  Since that's the source of all the dust, if there's no air flow you get a build up of dust in the box.

For what it's worth, I have the shroud on my saw and my bin still fills up.  I personally think it's a design flaw as the blade shroud is piped directly to the DC and there's no collection in the box.  I'm actually considering a redesign on my saw's DC to see if I can improve that flaw.

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With what little knowledge I have about airflow, derived from the restaurant business, exhaust hood and cooking appliance grease removal, I’m thinking that I have way to many openings in my ts base for my dc system. Path of least resistance. I even put duct tape in the corners of the base to fill as many openings as possible but to no avail. 

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8 hours ago, Coop said:

With what little knowledge I have about airflow, derived from the restaurant business, exhaust hood and cooking appliance grease removal, I’m thinking that I have way to many openings in my ts base for my dc system. Path of least resistance. I even put duct tape in the corners of the base to fill as many openings as possible but to no avail. 

Many seal them up with silicone..

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I believe it is a design flaw without the shroud.  Have used saws in the past that have a shroud and do a pretty good job.  Still have some sneak by.  I am really considering and over head arm for the saw.  Not only for safety but for dust collection.  The cabinet filling up doesn't bother me a whole lot, its the spray that comes off the blade that drives me nuts.  For most of the projects in my shop im not busting up 25 sheets of plywood so its not a huge deal.  

 

Thank you all for your input! 

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20 minutes ago, Jamie said:

 I am really considering and over head arm for the saw.  Not only for safety but for dust collection.  The cabinet filling up doesn't bother me a whole lot, its the spray that comes off the blade that drives me nuts. 

I completely agree that it's the dust of the top that drives me nuts but, I'm just not sure I want the over arm option..  Just seems to me that it would always be in the way.

FWIW, I typically open the big roll up door at the end of a project (or clean up time) and just use the leaf blower to push it all out the door...lol

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I wonder if you drilled a 2 1/2” or even another 4” port at bottom of the cabinet if that would make a difference.  Maybe you would be reducing air flow to much having a y fitting for both the original port and new.  Cutting through the cabinet just to see if it works isn’t super appealing.

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39 minutes ago, Woodenskye (Bryan) said:

I wonder if you drilled a 2 1/2” or even another 4” port at bottom of the cabinet if that would make a difference.  Maybe you would be reducing air flow to much having a y fitting for both the original port and new.  Cutting through the cabinet just to see if it works isn’t super appealing.

What I'm going to try first is a Y where the blade shroud discharges into to DC..  This way I still get the shroud but, also a little in the box.  Should be an inexpensive experiment.

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5 hours ago, Kev said:

What I'm going to try first is a Y where the blade shroud discharges into to DC..  This way I still get the shroud but, also a little in the box.  Should be an inexpensive experiment.

I’m not following you on this.  Is the port inside your cabinet?  How do you plan on getting the second hose in the cabinet?

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