What I Consider A Cool Short Story...Your Opinion May Vary ?

[RxR Sawdust Station]

I met and purchased a couple of tools from the Author of Tool Crib: A woodworking primer for young folks - Matthew J. Lepper the other day. 

I had no idea who he was when I saw some great looking hand planes on Craigslist or Facebook - I don't remember which now.

The ad had two hand planes in it, this one or one just like it and a smaller block plane.

I had asked the attendant If I could get a discount on the plane I did buy.  She called the consignee and coincidentally, he was on his way in to the second hand consignment store (real deal, living what he writes ?) I was in.  We happened to start talking about #Woodworking, go figure ?. We both talked about our opinions of the seemingly necessary evil of what we do (what I aspire to do ?) and how we express it on varied social media (Facebook etc.) - I'll tell you my opinion, I'll leave Mr. Lepper to tell you his ? - it's damned evil!  A necessary evil, sadly. I asked if he used #YouTube.  I was hoping to coax a few names out of him that I 'might' be familiar with.  Right off the top he says #StumpyNubs and #MattCremona!  Gold, Jerry! ? 

I've been watching the ads for several days waiting for a scheduled trip to that town so I could go at least look at them hoping to buy at least one of them.  They're beautiful (they're on his IG thetoolengraver among many other examples).  I thought the engraving was as antique as the tools are - they're that good!  He told me he did the engraving.  Wow!  Man, that guy can carve (engrave)! ???.  While I was looking around his booth, not knowing it was his booth at that point, I also saw this Stanley Try Square and this Gage Self-Setting Jointer Plane (24").

The self-setting mechanics intrigued me and that was before Mr. Lepper schooled me ?.  Now I know the how's and why's ?  While I was shopping but before I knew he was going to be there I had decided on this plane & square for sure and maybe one of the engraved planes.  The carved planes were not in my in budget (I went there expecting to spend X $) this trip ?.  The Gage jointer plane was labeled "inlaid" brass.  At first I thought, that's pretty cool.  Then I got to looking closer and it's a repair.  The solid brass plates are on both sides of the plane - full length. 

 

 

 

 

It is inlaid ??.  It gives it that much more character, imo. 

Above is the markings on the fore-end.  I'm assuming D.F.M are the prior owner's initials (I don't know that for sure).

Here's the blade markings.

I don't know what the Gage plane is worth.  It was priced at $45.  While it may be worth that, I really don't know...I had to try and negotiate it (that's why I had the attendant on the phone him), because ?.  I paid $40 for the plane and $9 for the Try Square...happy to do it!  It was within my self imposed budget.  And, I do plan to put it to to work.  I have a #7 jointer plane but it has a chip broken out of its mouth.  I think this one should be more trustworthy than that one.

When I got back to the Schoolhouse I checked the Try Square for square.  It's not.  It tries to be square but fails ? ?.  I did try and check it for square at the shop (Freakin' Antiquin'), while I was at the counter negotiating the price.  The counter had a rolled front edge so was not suitable to checking for square.  I'll try and rehab it at a later date.  I have my Brown and Sharpe machinist squares I trust.

I hope you find this post as enjoyable as I did living it.  Pretty neat story, imo.  Buying second hand hand tools from a person that espouses (and Authored a book on) buying second hand hand tools ??  He was an authentically nice fellow, too!

?,

RR

[RxR Sawdust Station]

I just did a quick setup and cut (when I say a quick setup - I adjusted the wheel until the iron made contact with the wood I was testing it on) with the Gage Self-Setting Jointer plane and it pulled a .004 shaving without even trying.  I wasn't trying to create a thin shaving. 

It is a bit awkward adjusting the iron though, it's difficult to get my fingers down there to turn the wheel.  It seems a bit buried, to this novice's sense of things.  The cap iron/chip breaker looks to fit very well.

And, to this novice's sense of hand planes, this wooden body hand plane looks to be unique in the way the sole can be flattened separate from the self-setting iron assembly.  You can simply back off that assembly by loosening two screws under the cap iron and iron, flatten the sole and bring the iron assembly back to flush with the sole.  I have not checked this one for flatness.  I will.

For those interested, I was of course ?, here is a video showing what I just described.  ? tip - Old Sneelock's Workshop.

 

**Oh, my tote is broken exactly how Mr. Sneelock's is ?**

?,

RR

[RxR Sawdust Station]

Well, I had not intended to open this bag but, down the rabbit hole I went (I actually have some things I 'need' to do) ?.

The self-setting iron assembly was not flat across its width in relation to the sole.  I tried and tried to get it to lay flat across the sole.  Using the only real reference plane I have (at the moment), a Kreg router plate, I clamped them all together and the same condition remains - its not flat across the sole. 

It's going to need some attention.  I 'might' try something like a router sled setup to mill the sole flat and square to its sides.  I also noted the sole rocks from corner-to-corner.  The sole needs attention.

**on the list ?**

?,

RR

 

Edited November 17, 2020 by RxR Sawdust Station

[Tmize]

Try out this link for readjust the carriage insert in the plane.
https://workingbyhand.wordpress.com/tag/gage/

You may need to flatten the plane wooden body first. You do not need to get it perfectly flat just so it has no rock. If you are pulling that thin of a shaving as is it will not take much work. By the length of the plane it’s a trying plane. In normal use .004 is as fine of a shaving that it should ever take. My jointer/trying planes are set up to take a shaving between the thickness of a piece of notebook paper .005 to card stock .01 in thickness. When you you get thickness thinner than that you are just trying to hard on a plane that long to get the board any flatter. The board will move more than those tolerances over the course of a few hours. The reason you see people taking half a thousandth shavings is either trying to remove tear out or playing around/ showing off.

If you want to learn to control the tear out even in a long plane learn to use the chip breaker. By setting very close to the edge even on that thickness of shavings will help. There is a lot of good info out very on the subject. David Weaver was a big pusher of the subject many years ago. An also a video done by some scientists in Japan. It shows up close photos of the testing at different sets of the chipbreaker to blade. Most will tell you it is only good if you are taking fine finish cuts but I’ve had some good luck on my medium duty planes also using this technique. 
 

ps. Just a warning I really like planes so if you get me started I will compete with you on long winded posts ?

[RxR Sawdust Station]

On 11/16/2020 at 10:00 PM, Tmize said:

Try out this link for readjust the carriage insert in the plane.
https://workingbyhand.wordpress.com/tag/gage/

You may need to flatten the plane wooden body first. You do not need to get it perfectly flat just so it has no rock. If you are pulling that thin of a shaving as is it will not take much work. By the length of the plane it’s a trying plane. In normal use .004 is as fine of a shaving that it should ever take. My jointer/trying planes are set up to take a shaving between the thickness of a piece of notebook paper .005 to card stock .01 in thickness. When you you get thickness thinner than that you are just trying to hard on a plane that long to get the board any flatter. The board will move more than those tolerances over the course of a few hours. The reason you see people taking half a thousandth shavings is either trying to remove tear out or playing around/ showing off.

If you want to learn to control the tear out even in a long plane learn to use the chip breaker. By setting very close to the edge even on that thickness of shavings will help. There is a lot of good info out very on the subject. David Weaver was a big pusher of the subject many years ago. An also a video done by some scientists in Japan. It shows up close photos of the testing at different sets of the chipbreaker to blade. Most will tell you it is only good if you are taking fine finish cuts but I’ve had some good luck on my medium duty planes also using this technique. 
 

ps. Just a warning I really like planes so if you get me started I will compete with you on long winded posts ?

Hi T ?!

Nice website!  Very informative.  Thank you, T!  I will check it out better when I get a minute.   I really do appreciate the assist!

I'm trying to finish painting my window insulation trim (I have one side of the four remaining, then install them), so I can move to the next necessary utilitarian, not really woodworking project (2x4Basics shelf and bench (bench for temporary kitchen counter space)). *I just spent $148usd last night on 16 "select" 2x4s and three 1/2 (2' x 8') sheets of 1/2" plywood - WOW!*

I have a machining background and am aware of maintaining square while flattening an adjacent surface.  I'm not equipped to machine it so ever since I posted that the "carriage" (A much better term to refer to it!) I've been letting the potential solutions roll around in the massive Thought Process Machine on my shoulders and still waiting for it to reach a best solution - my own solution or that of another individual! ?.  I know I have to flatten the sole and get it parallel to the carriage while maintaining square with both sides.  I'm pondering bringing it to a machine shop and see if they can square it up for me.  If I had a mill, or even a decent drill press with a cross slide vise, I'd do it myself.

As for the chip breaker, it is out of the users control.  It's built in.  Much like a small block plane it locks in to a roll pin set into the frame of the plane.

I only mentioned the .004 shaving because it was my first cut off it after touching the iron to the wood to cut anything, I wasn't trying for any particular thickness.

Quote

ps. Just a warning I really like planes so if you get me started I will compete with you on long winded posts ?

Bring it! ??

Thanks a bunch, again, for the information T....really appreciate it!

?,

RR

Edited November 19, 2020 by RxR Sawdust Station

[RxR Sawdust Station]

Scratch keeping the sole square to the sides!  With the brass repair plates I can't get a good read on where the sides are in relation to the sole.  Some spots are relatively square but, in one spot it looks like about 1/8" out of square ?!

Getting the sole flat and parallel to the carriage is the new goal! ??  Just can't ever use it on a shooting board or like operation.

Right now, as best as I can set it up, the carriage to the sole is flush on the left side of the carriage and .010 protruding on the right side. (measured with a 6" machinist square resting on the sole and my dial caliper aligned on the blade of the square while touching off on the protrusion)

?,

RR

Edited November 19, 2020 by RxR Sawdust Station

[RxR Sawdust Station]

On 11/16/2020 at 10:00 PM, Tmize said:

Try out this link for readjust the carriage insert in the plane.
https://workingbyhand.wordpress.com/tag/gage/

You may need to flatten the plane wooden body first. You do not need to get it perfectly flat just so it has no rock. If you are pulling that thin of a shaving as is it will not take much work. By the length of the plane it’s a trying plane. In normal use .004 is as fine of a shaving that it should ever take. My jointer/trying planes are set up to take a shaving between the thickness of a piece of notebook paper .005 to card stock .01 in thickness. When you you get thickness thinner than that you are just trying to hard on a plane that long to get the board any flatter. The board will move more than those tolerances over the course of a few hours. The reason you see people taking half a thousandth shavings is either trying to remove tear out or playing around/ showing off.

If you want to learn to control the tear out even in a long plane learn to use the chip breaker. By setting very close to the edge even on that thickness of shavings will help. There is a lot of good info out very on the subject. David Weaver was a big pusher of the subject many years ago. An also a video done by some scientists in Japan. It shows up close photos of the testing at different sets of the chipbreaker to blade. Most will tell you it is only good if you are taking fine finish cuts but I’ve had some good luck on my medium duty planes also using this technique. 
 

ps. Just a warning I really like planes so if you get me started I will compete with you on long winded posts ?

Hey Tmize, I made a mistake.

The cap iron and chip breaker are not one piece. 

 

I don't know what the heck I was thinking ?!  Doh!

Sorry about that, T.  My apologies!

Regards,

RR

[Tmize]

3 hours ago, RxR Sawdust Station said:

Hey Tmize, I made a mistake.

The cap iron and chip breaker are not one piece. 

 

I don't know what the heck I was thinking ?!  Doh!

Sorry about that, T.  My apologies!

Regards,

RR

It’s backwards flip the blade around the chipbreaker should go on the flat back of the blade. The bevel  of the blade an the bevel of the chipbreaker should by angled toward each other

[RxR Sawdust Station]

13 minutes ago, Tmize said:

It’s backwards flip the blade around the chipbreaker should go on the flat back of the blade. The bevel  of the blade an the bevel of the chipbreaker should by angled toward each other

That is interesting.  I didn't even notice that!  Awesome assist! 

Thanks, T!

?,

RR

[RxR Sawdust Station]

5 hours ago, Tmize said:

It’s backwards flip the blade around the chipbreaker should go on the flat back of the blade. The bevel  of the blade an the bevel of the chipbreaker should by angled toward each other

Hi T ?,

You'll have to forgive me, T.  I'm a little confused on which piece you're suggesting I flip over.

Flip 2 or 3? 

 

2 and 3 do seem to be angled toward each other, to me.

Tips ?,

RR

[Tmize]

Thats my bad the last pic you showed is correct. I got turned around on the first pics. 

[RxR Sawdust Station]

21 hours ago, Tmize said:

Thats my bad the last pic you showed is correct. I got turned around on the first pics. 

These damned interminable, confounded wires! ?

It's cool!  It happens, just see my above! ?

Thanks, T!

Tips ?,

RR

[Tmize]

You got that thing tuned up an running yet?

[RxR Sawdust Station]

On 11/21/2020 at 10:28 PM, Tmize said:

You got that thing tuned up an running yet?

HI T,

No, I was injured/reserved yesterday after doing what I tried and failed at posting the other day then purchasing and retrieving and helping to unload a bunch of Red Oak (estimated at 150bf) into the Schoolhouse.

Not sure when I'm going to get the sole right.  I'd like to have it machined but since I mentioned that I thought I'd try to sand it parallel to the carriage (flat surface sanding, not hand or hand-held machine sanding).  IF I were to try to sand it flat and parallel to the carriage and failed I could have it machined after that.

Also, that Red Oak I picked up is rough sawn.  I might try playing around with it and that Gage plane and my #7 with the chipped mouth.

***btw, I went to the sawmill thinking I was buying White Oak.  Red Oak was on top of mixed stacks.  Did not realize until I got it all back here that it will require acrylic solid stain to prepare it for use as fascia board, or for any exterior use that is*** 

?,

RR

[Tmize]

Little thing I’ve tried I read it some where. When sanding the sole flat. I use plate glass as a reference surface. Lay the sand paper down put a playing card down in the center of the strip between sand paper an the glass. It helps from making the toe and heel higher than the mouth area banana shape you hear about from people surfacing by hand. 

[RxR Sawdust Station]

On 11/23/2020 at 9:28 PM, Tmize said:

Little thing I’ve tried I read it some where. When sanding the sole flat. I use plate glass as a reference surface. Lay the sand paper down put a playing card down in the center of the strip between sand paper an the glass. It helps from making the toe and heel higher than the mouth area banana shape you hear about from people surfacing by hand. 

Hello T!,

You've been messing around in my brain? ??  I have been pondering that very thing.  However, I had not heard of the playing card method.  That sounds interesting.

The Gage is 24 inches.  The #7 is 21-1/2 inches.  How does that work with the readily available Float Glass that's typically only 12 inches long?

As an alternative to the Float Glass' relative shortcomings ? I have considered a Surface Plate.  What do you think of that?

Grizzly has a 18" x 24" x 3" Granite Surface Plate (Model #G9654) for $77.95 - flat to within .00015 in either direction.  With my machining background - CNC and Manual - it includes being a certified CMM (Coordinate Measuring Machine) technician, I am very familiar with surface plates and, the size seems right to me.  But, I don't really know as I haven't done any sharpening on either the Float Glass or a Surface Plate - flying blind here! ?

I did do a little messing around with both planes on the Red Oak I got.

With the help of my SIL, we got it into the schoolhouse but it wasn't stickered (the sawmill said I could have some stickers but I forgot to grab any). 

It was raining when we brought them in and they were soaked.  I didn't have enough of anything to make stickers from so I thought it best I stack them vertically.  But, with these five 3 foot x 5 foot windows there was a risk of them falling over and crashing through one of them so I made some side supports out of scrap 2x4s I did have to prevent them from falling over, hopefully.  ***most of them don't have square cuts on their ends - not sure why***

So, as I said I would, I pulled one down the other night and hit it with both planes.  While they both performed as expected - they did shave the wood - my setup is wanting.

I think I like the action of the Gage plane (it seemed to run smoother of the wood) but, the #7, even with its chipped mouth, I think cut a little better.

The area wanting is the work surface.  I knew going in that I wasn't set up for hand planing wood and, as expected, I pushed the Bora Centipede around quite a bit ?.  And, this Centipede is too damn short for me.  It killed my back after just a few minutes.  It did reaffirm my need to go get my Delta 22-650 Thickness Planer - will try after the 1st.

I was able to support (stop) the wood along its length with @benchdogs.co.uk Bench Top Protectors intended for other work.  I clamped the far end to the Festool-ish Multi-Function Slab.  But, I either need a "work bench" (and, YES, I certainly do and plan to) of some sort OR a wall in closes proximity to the work piece.

As a side note and a discovery, Bora has come out with a Centipede that's 36 inches tall now.  It came out in October, after I bought mine (which was never intended to use for what I'm using it for ?.

Thanks for the assist, again, T!  I want you to know it is greatly appreciated!

Regards,

RR

[Tmize]

50 minutes ago, RxR Sawdust Station said:

Hello T!,

You've been messing around in my brain? ??  I have been pondering that very thing.  However, I had not heard of the playing card method.  That sounds interesting.

The Gage is 24 inches.  The #7 is 21-1/2 inches.  How does that work with the readily available Float Glass that's typically only 12 inches long?

As an alternative to the Float Glass' relative shortcomings ? I have considered a Surface Plate.  What do you think of that?

Grizzly has a 18" x 24" x 3" Granite Surface Plate (Model #G9654) for $77.95 - flat to within .00015 in either direction.  With my machining background - CNC and Manual - it includes being a certified CMM (Coordinate Measuring Machine) technician, I am very familiar with surface plates and, the size seems right to me.  But, I don't really know as I haven't done any sharpening on either the Float Glass or a Surface Plate - flying blind here! ?

I did do a little messing around with both planes on the Red Oak I got.

With the help of my SIL, we got it into the schoolhouse but it wasn't stickered (the sawmill said I could have some stickers but I forgot to grab any). 

It was raining when we brought them in and they were soaked.  I didn't have enough of anything to make stickers from so I thought it best I stack them vertically.  But, with these five 3 foot x 5 foot windows there was a risk of them falling over and crashing through one of them so I made some side supports out of scrap 2x4s I did have to prevent them from falling over, hopefully.  ***most of them don't have square cuts on their ends - not sure why***

So, as I said I would, I pulled one down the other night and hit it with both planes.  While they both performed as expected - they did shave the wood - my setup is wanting.

I think I like the action of the Gage plane (it seemed to run smoother of the wood) but, the #7, even with its chipped mouth, I think cut a little better.

The area wanting is the work surface.  I knew going in that I wasn't set up for hand planing wood and, as expected, I pushed the Bora Centipede around quite a bit ?.  And, this Centipede is too damn short for me.  It killed my back after just a few minutes.  It did reaffirm my need to go get my Delta 22-650 Thickness Planer - will try after the 1st.

I was able to support (stop) the wood along its length with @benchdogs.co.uk Bench Top Protectors intended for other work.  I clamped the far end to the Festool-ish Multi-Function Slab.  But, I either need a "work bench" (and, YES, I certainly do and plan to) of some sort OR a wall in closes proximity to the work piece.

As a side note and a discovery, Bora has come out with a Centipede that's 36 inches tall now.  It came out in October, after I bought mine (which was never intended to use for what I'm using it for ?.

Thanks for the assist, again, T!  I want you to know it is greatly appreciated!

Regards,

RR

The surface plate will do just fine. Do go to machinist on how flat can you make it. Remember we are working with wood a object that will continue to move long after it’s been cut down. What I mean by that is one degree change in temperature or humidity the wood can move .01. So why try an mill to that kind of tolerance if it will not be the same by the end of the day. I think on nearly all my planes I polished the sole more than made sure it was with in nasa or machinist tolerances. The front around the mouth an the back edge needs to be in the same plane tho. One thing that I know for sure will mess with its performance is if the sole has any twist in it. 
 

On milling those red oak boards get a straight edge( an 4’ level is fine)an find the high spots first an hit them with a shorter plane. Once you have them close to the rest on the board then bring out the longer planes much easier work. 

[RxR Sawdust Station]

56 minutes ago, Tmize said:

The surface plate will do just fine. Do go to machinist on how flat can you make it. Remember we are working with wood a object that will continue to move long after it’s been cut down. What I mean by that is one degree change in temperature or humidity the wood can move .01. So why try an mill to that kind of tolerance if it will not be the same by the end of the day. I think on nearly all my planes I polished the sole more than made sure it was with in nasa or machinist tolerances. The front around the mouth an the back edge needs to be in the same plane tho. One thing that I know for sure will mess with its performance is if the sole has any twist in it. 
 

On milling those red oak boards get a straight edge( an 4’ level is fine)an find the high spots first an hit them with a shorter plane. Once you have them close to the rest on the board then bring out the longer planes much easier work. 

Good information, all!  You remind me that I have at least one other smaller hand plane I could make a scrub plane out of it and do as you recommend, hit the high spots first.  And the straight edge.  I don't have one but it is on my "need to buy" tool list.  Some winding sticks, too.  Thank you!  Christmas is nigh...hopefully some of those things will be on sale ? (oh, and clamps! ??!).

I know the Gage has a twist in it.  I don't think it is a 'natural' twist.  I think 'some' of the twist was introduced into the sole by someone 'trying' to rehabilitate it.  You can see the many different levels on the surface.  I'm trying to capture the light reflecting off the sole in these images showing the butchering of the sole.

In this image you can see at least two hand plane iron cuts in the sole.

Then here is the toe.  You can see the wavy surface and the difference in color showing the original surface and the 'new' surface.

Now 'maybe' the resurfacing did improve what the person started with ?

I think at my level of competency at this point in time, a wavy, iron cut sole may benefit me! ?

Thanks again, T! ?

RR

 

[RxR Sawdust Station]

On 11/29/2020 at 7:19 PM, Tmize said:

The surface plate will do just fine. Do go to machinist on how flat can you make it. Remember we are working with wood a object that will continue to move long after it’s been cut down. What I mean by that is one degree change in temperature or humidity the wood can move .01. So why try an mill to that kind of tolerance if it will not be the same by the end of the day. I think on nearly all my planes I polished the sole more than made sure it was with in nasa or machinist tolerances. The front around the mouth an the back edge needs to be in the same plane tho. One thing that I know for sure will mess with its performance is if the sole has any twist in it. 
 

On milling those red oak boards get a straight edge( an 4’ level is fine)an find the high spots first an hit them with a shorter plane. Once you have them close to the rest on the board then bring out the longer planes much easier work. 

Since I read your sage advice, @Tmize? I thought about going digital window shopping for a straight edge.  I have a 4 foot level but I don't completely trust it.  I once used it as a clamping aid like a caul when I made my table saw sled front fence.  It's aluminum and I've never trusted it after that ?.  It's probably fine but.... ? ?

But, I was setting up to try the Gage and #7 again, against the wall this time...just because it was on my mind now.  And, on the 36 inch tall sawhorses.  It then hit me that I have a straight edge.  A 75 inch long straight edge.  My Festool FS-1900/2 guide rail should be perfectly straight.  Extruded aluminum is generally perfect dimensionally IF not abused (like using it for a woodworking caul! ?.  At this point I trust it to be straight.

'

Using my new straight edge ?, I discovered the red oak was positioned upside down.  Although I took a few swipes at it anyway just checking the working height.  I like the height but my back is still really hurting.  I have to lay off until it feels better, even if it's just a little bit better (gonna try and get that countertop painted. that's really why I set the sawhorses up again but the thought of trying out the planes with the wall backing up the red oak took over ?)

My straight edge is shown touching on both ends.

Of the two (not properly set up hand planes) I think I prefer the #7.  Although it has a junk iron on it that I know is junk because I had to completely rebuild the edge when I got it.  It was wavy and scorched (like grinder or belt sander wavy and scorched).  I used two pieces of 1/4 inch glass on top of each other on my table saw wing and sand paper to put this edge on it.  I did pretty good but I know it's not a good as it could or should be.  It was my first attempt at sharpening any hand plane iron.  I did use a modified honing guide (modified by me after much research) and made a self-made iron angle gauge.

I think I 'might' like hand planing.  I have always envisioned hand planing when I decided to jump into woodworking with both feet a few years ago.  Not sure how my back is going to view it ???.  The only real hand planing I've done up to this point was a oak door threshold with two angled edges I did for my BIL's girlfriend.

Even with these junker hand planes the product looks pretty nice.

Gonna clean up again and try to get that countertop painted.

??,

RR

Edited December 1, 2020 by RxR Sawdust Station
First proper tag :-)